Adding Third Places To Unlock a Small Town’s Potential
Today, Norm is joined by Jess and Dan Sollaccio from Warrenton, Oregon. Jess is a city commissioner and a small-scale housing developer. Dan is a commissioner for the Warrenton Budget Committee and works remotely for a financial institution. They explain their asset-based mindset for strengthening their community, as well as their efforts to redevelop a vacant building into a community hub.
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Norm Van Eeden Petersman 0:00
Hello and thanks for tuning in to this Bottom-Up Short. I'm Norm of Strong Towns, and over the years, I've had the privilege of meeting 1000s of Strong Towns members. Often I walk away thinking, I've got to tell you about this person. That's what these shorts are all about: quick introductions to regular people doing remarkable things. And trust me, most of them started out just like you, unsure, at times, a little overwhelmed and wondering if they had what it takes to make a difference. And so if something in this conversation resonates with you, please let us know. We love hearing what stands out. Today, my guests are Jess and Dan Sollaccio. Jess is a city commissioner and a small scale housing developer in Warrenton, Oregon, just south of Washington State, a town that is just outside of Astoria. I met Jessica during a Strong Towns stroad show that John Pattinson and I did in Western Oregon last year. She stepped up as to host a great event in Astoria. Actually one of the fun facts about that meeting was that we held this event and members of the Astoria city council had to pick one of their people to go home, otherwise they would have violated the Open Meetings Act, which, to me, is a sign of real community engagement and a delight to learn more about these things and how we apply them in our community? Dan is also a key part of this project and this work of helping to improve Warrenton. He serves on the Budget Committee as a commissioner and works remotely for a financial institution, while also taking on many projects within Warrenton. Today, you'll hear how Jess and Dan use an asset focused mindset to identify where to build and to improve. Why don't we start with that? Welcome Jess and Dan, so glad to have you on Bottom-Up Shorts.
Jess Sollaccio 1:49
Thanks for having us.
Dan Sollaccio 1:50
Yeah, thank you.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 1:51
Great to have you here. Let's talk about this idea of an asset based mindset, and how that has sparked the type of work and changes that you're you're seeking to do.
Jess Sollaccio 2:00
So this thinking around our community assets, this is something I actually learned about during my time on the planning commission. Living in a small town, I was fortunate enough to just run into the mayor during one of the first few months that we lived here, and he extended an invitation to get involved. I don't think he knew the level of involvement that we would end up playing in the community. But with that, I had a few conversations with people. I ended up taking a role in the planning commission, and through that process of learning more about urban development and urban design, I learned about asset based planning. With asset based planning, we think about all the things our community has to offer. Living in a small town around 6000 people, there's a lot of challenges, especially when it comes to revenue and capital. Also being rural makes certain things challenging. But we have so many beautiful things here. We have incredible parks, we have incredible people, and we live, I think, in one of the most beautiful places in the country, so building off that and keeping that front and center when we are thinking about our community and what we want to develop. But I'll let Dan fill in what he thinks about when it comes to asset based mindset.
Dan Sollaccio 3:19
I mean, you pretty much captured it there. I think one thing about Warrenton that I try to tell people that are not from here, or that haven't been here, is, if you look at a map, it's surrounded by the Pacific Ocean. It's got the beaches. It's got the Skipanon River, the Columbia River right to the north. It's almost a picturesque location, if you didn't have any dividing lines and you could just select where you might want to be or to develop. And Fort Stevens State Park, Fort Clatsop, all these are right in Warrenton. I think one thing that we've been really eager to do is to help draw that connection. People do come to these parks and and love the natural resources, but how do you then make the connection from the actual town of Warrenton, which is 6000 people, but it is within this cluster of Astoria and Seaside and Gearhart and down Cannon Beach in the south together. It's a larger community. But Warrenton is just one part that has a lot to offer. I think that might be a bit undersold at times.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 4:17
To pick up that, one of the things that, if I remember correctly, you're working on, is a small scale retail sort of area, where multiple businesses would be able to operate. Can you talk about maybe some of the challenges that exist with trying to move a project like that forward? But also, what's the driving reason behind it?
Jess Sollaccio 4:38
Yeah, I guess I'll start with the driving reason. I can see it from my home office. So for three years I've been looking at this semi vacant, two story building just wondering what is going on here? We also have two small children, and I think people with small children know it's really hard to get out. It's really hard to find places that are welcoming to toddlers that are going to be running around and probably being disruptive. And so we were looking for places that we could feel comfortable taking our kids, where we could interact with other people in the community. And there's really not a lot of that third place in Warrenton. We have an incredible library. We have beautiful parks, like Dan said, but it does rain, you know, six to eight months out of the year here. And looking at this building, we kept asking, what is going on? Why is this sitting empty? Who's in charge of this? And finally we said, Okay, well, why don't we just call the number on the door? Let's figure out what's going on. And one question led to another, and we ended up acquiring the building. And I'm sure anyone that has tried to redevelop a vacant property with deferred maintenance knows it's challenging, especially when there are structural issues at play. And also, Dan and I both have day jobs. We have done some small development in the past, but nothing at this scale. So being just normal people, we don't have access to capital that larger institutions have, and so one of the biggest challenges is figuring out how to navigate that situation, and again, coming back to the question, what are the assets that our community has? And one of them is access to different types of funding streams, including significant grants. And that's one thing that has really opened a lot of doors for us.
Dan Sollaccio 6:42
Jess said that we were asking about the building. It was more of Jess' persistence. I was working on a home renovation that we were doing to create a mother in law unit, and so I was actually in the opposition for a bit, telling her, please no, like we can't. But a couple years later, thanks to her persistence -- it wasn't listed at the time. So it definitely took some asking, but as Jess mentioned, there was some grant opportunities, specifically through the city of Warrenton. There was an alignment there between the urban renewal program and what we were looking to do. Many meetings and presentations later, we were able to acquire it. So we're excited.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 7:22
I think that's a great action step, which is, if you see a phone number on the door of a building, maybe call it, and you never know. I was smiling at the thought of how an urbanist rom com is basically like, and then one thing led to another, and now all of a sudden, we own it. But I think that there's an interesting way in, one, observing that there's real assets. But then, two, observing that there's a gap. There's not that ability, you know, especially in all four seasons, to have a space that maybe is open past 6pm or a place that people can come and gather and just be okay together and support and contribute to what's going on. So I love that. And out of that, I feel like it's also opened up this responsibility that you've acted on to take ownership within your community. Even as commissioners now on the Budget Committee as well as on City Commission. Do you want to talk about why one thing led to another in that regard as well?
Jess Sollaccio 8:14
Yeah, I mentioned that we have a beautiful library here. That was, I think, one of the things that spurred me to get involved. We actually almost lost our library. So the library is funded through a levy, and the levy almost did not pass to keep the library open. And I place a lot of value in libraries, not only because I have small children, but because I think that they provide a lot of value for people that might not have access to the internet, or individuals that might need support accessing computers to apply for jobs, and it's also a great gathering place. So seeing that was deeply distressing. And I was like, Okay, well, I feel like I need to get more involved, because this is important to me, and if I want to see this in my community, I'm going to be someone that's going to have to fight for it. And so by getting involved on the City Commission, running for office, and then winning my office, that was really exciting, and it's given me a new perspective. So now balancing both sides, from the public side and working in government and seeing the challenges and the constraints that exist there, but also working as a small scale developer and seeing the challenges of red tape and bureaucracy and balancing that, but understanding that we both sides have a balance and a role to play in creating the type of community that adheres to our values.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 9:51
That's powerful. And I think that idea that when someone in good faith wants to do a good thing and then has to ask, Why is this so difficult? I think that definitely is one of those core calls that we should be listening to and seeking to answer. And for you, Dan, on the Budget Commission, that's a whole other sort of element. And you have a financial background. I would imagine that certain skills you brought to the table, but what are some of the skills that you've had to pick up in order to do that work?
Dan Sollaccio 10:20
I mean, it very accounting focused, and I've done some financial analysis, but none to quite that level. The role is much smaller than, say, the commission that Jess serves on and she also is part of the budget committee now as a commissioner. I think for me, it's just been two annual cycles now, and year one was mostly learning and even seeing how the process plays out. And then year two, we had our second a couple months ago. It was interesting. There was some back and forth on line items you might consider small but impactful. And I think what I've learned, or what I've come away from, is it's a lot of work, a lot of preparation that goes into these budgets. They don't just happen, and I have gained a lot of respect for staff at the city for basically sitting there on demand, question and answer for literally 1000s of budget items. But one question or one discussion point that kept coming up is the city's vision and the city's identity. You know, what does the city want to be and want to become? And I think budget is an important role there, but also it dictates where you're going to allocate your funds. So it's this interesting interplay that goes back to the Commission and the mayor really kind of sets that vision, and then it's kind of fleshed out through through action and budget.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 11:35
And then maybe from both of you, do you want to just, Jess and then Dan, described what's made you a local advocate, and what's been that sort of path of stepping in, and what are some of the things that you've realized you've had to refine or learn along the way?
Jess Sollaccio 11:54
This is the smallest town that I've ever lived in. I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida, which is the largest land mass in the lower 48. I did my master's thesis in Chicago. We spent some time in Seattle. So we've always lived in larger metropolitan areas where you have access to certain things. A lot of my experience with civic life has been going to free concerts or going to parks that are well maintained, or seeing trails with beautiful signage, and moving to a rural area and not seeing those things, it really struck me. Why can't rural have the access to the same type of social infrastructure and beautiful things that we expect in urban settings and take for granted in urban settings? Even the safety of bike lanes. And so asking this question of like, why not here? Why can't we have this here? And trying to dig in to find the answers, and also trying to understand, Okay, well, we live in a in a different area that's culturally a little bit different, but we all want the same things. You know, we want to connect with our neighbors, we want to have the ability to use the outdoors. We want it to be accessible for people of all ages and abilities. And so working backwards from from that to say, Okay, well, what does it take to actually get there? That was one of the things that's been top of mind for me, just asking why not and then what will it take to make it happen?
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 13:33
Yeah, that feels like a very clear vision of what it is. And I just find that's powerful. And what about for you, Dan?
Dan Sollaccio 13:41
I mean, a similar path. I'd say one thing that we didn't touch on much is that Jess and I have been very interested and eager to get into some form of real estate development for many years. We did a condo rehab at Chicago. At our house in Warrenton, we've done that renovation I spoke about. But I kind of feel like we were always going down that path of, like, multi unit residential, like a typical investment. There's nothing that I have against that, but it didn't resonate very strongly, I'd say, and maybe other reasons kind of kept us out of there. But when this opportunity kind of kept coming into view, as Jess sort of mentioned. It's right there. She's looking at it from where she's sitting right now. To kind of go over many of the smaller details. You know, it wasn't listed, the price that it was asking for was way out of reach for what it needs. And then this grant program came into view that we had a strong alignment with. It kind of just felt like this kept getting pushed in front of us, and then once I got my head around the idea that we could be actually work on creating a space that that can show this community what it could deserve and, as you alluded to earlier, have smaller businesses potentially get footing here in this physical space. Once those possibilities kind of really came to something I could imagine, that's really been motivating me all along. Jess and I will just sit constantly talking about obviously design aspects and things we need to do, but just imagining people walking into this space, not not knowing what to expect, but then also seeing what other people are going to do with it. And there's a lot more on the history of the space too, what it's been in the past, since it's a 100 year old building. So there's a ton of rich history you want to bring into it as well and really make it a natural part of this long standing community.
Jess Sollaccio 15:38
I'm just going to add, I think one thing that we've noticed too is, and this is probably true across communities, is an erosion of small downtowns, small main streets, because of big box stores and urban design being so car dependent. But when you have a strong main street and you have places where people can walk and gather and meander and support small businesses, you keep more of that money in your town. You foster economic development and you support people's livelihoods. And not only that, but you can do it in ways that balance the needs of the community. You can provide a strong tax base, you know, now with my commissioner hat on. Making sure that we're providing a space that is in alignment and supporting the city and paying for roads and all the things that go into supporting a town. But you can also have a community mindset and say, Well, what is best for my community, and what do the people here actually need, and how can I support that and make that happen?
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 16:45
Yeah, I think that's awesome. And you live at the mouth of the Columbia River. I live at the mouth of the Fraser River, and each day, when I look at how dirty the water is or how brown it is, I'm like, with all of that topsoil, some of it had to go out into the ocean, but a lot more of it could have been kept in the landscape. And actually money operates in much the same way. If we can slow down the fluidity of that movement of money through our communities, it really percolates, and it really causes a lot of life to grow. Man, the whole conversation is shot full of hope. But what are the things that give you hope?
Jess Sollaccio 17:18
I would say people. I feel like people are really excited about this space. And hearing about all the ideas. Like, someone wants to open a flower shop, or someone is a musician that wants to have space to provide lessons, book clubs that want to meet. People are really excited and have a lot of ideas, and I'm excited to open the doors and to have this space serve as that community hub, and to generate more ideas and to hopefully show that this is what's possible. Now let's go help you acquire one of the smaller spaces downtown. Let's go move your smaller business into a bigger space, or like, let's give you a second location. So what gives me hope is the potential for what this is going to do for our community and to unlock more people's dreams and ideas to help them live the lives that they want to live. And also just meeting more of our neighbors. I'm really hopeful that it'll help us weave more of that social connection in our community.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 18:24
Yeah. It even serves as a way for more people to be able to stay, to remain, to find fruitful employment, all of those things. Love that. Yeah. Dan over to you.
Dan Sollaccio 18:35
I guess, very much along the same lines. If you're in Warrenton for a long period of time, as Jess mentioned, there's really no third place to gather. It's kind of a lack on the coast, is just broadly. But we do have these events. I think there's four a year that our main street organization Spruce Up runs. It's a very small team that has a very high impact on the community. They do Fourth of July, an Easter egg hunt, a Fall Festival. At these events, people will come seemingly out of the woodwork, because you're not seeing people at a community space or something. You might see them at the diner downtown or passing at the grocery store, but you see the volumes of people that come out with young children that are very eager for this social connection and cohesion that we're hoping to just kind of get started in a mainstay, like an anchor downtown, that can, as Jess mentioned, blossom into other things, whether it's businesses or other spaces. I think there's just a lot of potential in Warrenton and in the surrounding rural areas that's just really untapped, that people are really starving for that that connection. So it's exciting for both of us.
Norm Van Eeden Petersman 19:43
Yeah, I love that, and the idea that many of the core assets in our communities can be easily hidden, and so part of our work as Strong Towns advocates is to try to bring them to life and really make that clear. Wow, this has been fantastic. Really enjoyed conversation with you. Certainly Astoria and Warrenton now are on my list of places that I need to get back to. Because I will confess, we just blitz right through Warrenton on our way to Astoria on the highway, and I know that too many people do that. So certainly, the plan is to make make my way back as well. If you're listening to this and you happen to find yourself on the West Coast, make sure you find a way to Warrenton. Maybe in a few years time, there'll be a great little coffee shop or a music store or any number of other things that have popped up in that space. I'll be sure to track down a photo of the building in its current state so that you can see the before and after in the years to com. With that, Dan and Jess, thank you so much for jumping in to share with us on this Bottom-Up Shorts. If you like what you heard and you want to suggest others in your community that you would love to hear interviewed, please use the link in the show notes to do that. As always, take care and take care of your places.
ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES
Jessica Sollaccio (site)
The Outpost (site)
Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
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